I am out

[cl794]

Before I start, I want to make it clear this isn't a morality piece, nor do I mean to influence anyone else, or to somehow make anyone feel less about themselves. Because that would be hypocritical and that's not me. This is just my recent story, that's all it is. But yes as the title of the post says, I am out, done with visiting massage parlors.

Here is what started it. Late-December I went to a massage place. Don't ask me where or names because that isn't the point, and I won't share. The girl turned out to be a Chinese foreign student at an Ontario college and young, early 20s, and pretty. After the massage, she asked if I wanted sex and I said yes. So she undressed and was standing there naked. And I couldn't do it, she could have been my daughter standing there. Just felt incredibly sorry all of a sudden. So I paid her and we just chatted for a bit and I left. I'm sure she is working still and most probably she's not nearly as bothered about it, as I was.

But since than, I have stopped, I got fed up with myself. Not just what happened with that girl, but also this never ending up and down cycle of having fun for an hour, go home, and than the itch starts again, until the next visit. I'm much more busy with hobbies, started going out Saturday nights, and generally feeling a lot happier. Will I go back ? Like any addiction, it always will linger. But I have not smoked in 25 years so perhaps this isn't so difficult after all.

I agree with your own assessment, the whole thing could have meant nothing to her, you're just another customer that paid her (and then strangely didn't want sex, you do you).

I think whatever bad things could be going on in her life. You visiting her and paying cash for service would be fairly low on that list. For example you're probably not rude to her, you probably didn't lie to her.

 

[sinistarglobal]

I might not agree with what a provider does with her money, but I don't think that's really my business. So if a girl is unhappy with her outcome from the industry, then that's on her. If they want Mercedes and Gucci bags it's their life. Some seem to be doing just fine though. I just had a SP who said she invests plenty in the stock market and is saving for a house. She's on her way home to see her family for a while. Hardly the life of a slave in my opinion. She can probably buy 100 Apple shares soon if I keep seeing her. She is there by choice and is free to leave... that's all that matters to me. There's really not much left to interpretation in most cases

I'd be interested hearing different perspectives if guys feel they ran into that. Personally I have never felt I ran in to any exploitation other than me being the sucker more times than I'd like to admit.

I think there is a lot to unpack from this very insightful response. Would start with the second paragraph quoted. Agree that only exploitation has been me, paying way way more than i KNOW i should because I am thinking with junior. As mentioned prior, many of us, if detecting any level of exploitation would shut it down right away. today I saw a really average looking, likely 50+ year old MPA, who played me like a piano for money -- she knew what I wanted... Knew I would overpay... and Knew how to get me there.
Love the first paragraph. I have seen a few Viet veterans who really seem to have their shit together. Work hard, invest their money, take trips back home when they are able to. These ladies acknowledge the amount they can make here is literally 5X what they could make back home and they "age out" much quicker there. Have actually had a few parenting discussions with them which is crazy/or not when you think about it.

 

[Spawarrior99]

If I ever even had a Spidey sense I was exploiting a reluctant girl they would be no way and I 100% can see why the OP might have been creeped out. Kudos to the OP to dip from that situation.

But if it's a different issue it might be a sign to check out completely.

If it's an out of control addiction, It's not easy and like most addictions they are usually driven in the direction until they become a problem, and for some, their downfall. This game can certainly take a man's soul if you head onto a dark route.

Unfortunately, it can do exactly the same for our lady friends.

I was talking to a boss years ago about one of her most popular attendants and she told me she had quit and moved on from the industry because she wanted to focus on finding a guy who was looking for a real commitment and realized a quality one wouldn't be with any of us pervs. She obviously was also looking to bury her skeletons and move on. She did actually quit...for a year or two. Now she's been back at it for a few years.

How many times has this industry crushed a girl's dreams and goals too? Probably as many or more than customers. They just have different things they're looking for, and even the material Gucci bag collectors surely find that pursuit hollow eventually. I don't want to contribute to that. There is definitely sketchy shit going on, but I don't play in that league. It does disgust me especially because I don't like anyone being a victim of exploitative practices. Unfortunately the media only picks up the "squeaky wheel" cases so the stigma of the industry being inundated with creeps and victims persists and is prevalent.

But I'm not looking for things from this game I can't have because that would be a ticket to fail.

Like all dark paths, when we taunt them, they can bite back. Keeping things like gambling, drugs, alcohol, sex is so important....all can and will push you over and into the waterfall until you drown. So don't light a match if you can't keep the fire in control or put it out.

As long as I'm not part of the problem I'm going to have fun...but I've made mistakes in the past. Hopefully guys won't make the same ones I did, but it's in the control of the individual to use his head on the top floor.

Hope it doesn't come off as a long rant. It's hopefully more of a precautionary tale, especially to the younger guys and the result of some damn good gummies. Please give me a signal if I'm on drunk-ass Spawarrior turf

But Gentlemen keep your eyes on the road and in control of your vehicle, because not paying attention will put you in the ditch...and maybe in a flaming fucking wreck.

Happy, safe, and fair hobbying at whatever level you partake.

As long as I'm not part of the problem I'm going to have fun...but I've made mistakes in the past. Hopefully guys won't make the same ones I did, but it's in the control of the individual to use his head on the top floor.

First off - great thread and everyone's input - kudos!
and I f I disagree with some statements, so be it!

but that this thread totally relates to OG Funguys thread of "when do you know you are hobbying too much?"
I just want to ask lucvdafurburger about his statement "as long as I'm not the problem." Can you please explain this.
Thanks.

 

[Spawarrior99]

Thanks for sharing. I've been doing this since I was 19, I'm 60. In all that time, I have told myself I was quitting a few times...but that itch. Usually what prompted me to quit were feelings like those you've described.

I could certainly be fooling myself, but over the decades I've convinced myself that I can tell the difference between women who are unwillingly in this line of work and those who are comfortable with the choice. It's not always a bright line --after all where there are human beings there is nuance--but most of the time, I still think I get it right. I am lucky that even at 19, I have always been attracted to women in their mid 30s or older and have had a generous share of luck convincing women to fuck without resorting to payment. That has tended to cut down on the chance that I'm dealing with someone who is a victim of her own immaturity.

Good luck with choice. I hope you find satisfaction and fulfillment.

As you said, you have convinced yourself right?

Being convinced, we were at Step Three, which is that we decided to turn our will and our life over to God as we understood Him. Just what do we mean by that, and just what do we do?​

The first requirement is that we be convinced that any life run on self-will can hardly be a success. On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good. Most people try to live by self-propulsion. Each person is like an actor who wants to run the whole show; is forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players in his own way. If​

 

[Darke Steele]

...I'm happy to see that we have so many Renaissance Men here who are willing to share their feelings. This is very healthy.

That said, I'd like to contribute a few thoughts and experiences to the discussion.

I have no idea what the fxck spawarrior was saying in the last post and I ain't trying to figure it out.

I'm personally past the Christian moralizing since the people who stand up in pulpits telling the rest of us what should and should not be doing have been been banging women and children on the side for centuries. So, I'm not worried about thier opinions.

I agree that I and most if not all of the men on this site would shut down if exploitation was suspected.

Lots of people have bad days or days where they hate thuer jobs. So they leave when it gets to be too much. The vast majority of these women are voluntarily and can leave if they want to.

I married a woman and promised to be faithful. I was until she told me to " Stop bothering me about sex. Take ur little pecker somewhere and jerk off!" My response was "okay" and I've never approached her for sex since. Very happy with the outcome

2 years later, after putting on 75lbs, she said she wanted to have again. I told her "Bitch, take your whale-ass outta here! What the fuck are you taking about?"

Okay, that wasn't really said. But that ws the general idea.

I like fucking women who enjoy fucking me. I don't want another relationship in some bitch controls sex and thinks she can talk to me however she wants. Fuck that.

With that, I'm in California and going to bang some Asian pussy now.

Later fellas. Stay safe out there

 

[Stan Lee]

I also had this moral dilemma while staring at Sami with my cock stuffed in her mouth. Then she exhaled and said “I love sucking cock” and swallowed my schlong again.
The angel has spoken.

 

[sy barite]

I agree there is a whole range of unhappiness in a job. Very very few people who are working in any field are going to say they enjoy 100% of their job. I always say it comes down to a percentage. If someone doesn't like 60% of their job I'd suggest they find something else they'd be happier with that has a lower percentage of dislikes.

Who doesn't have some degree of bullshit to deal with? Especially in an industry dealing with the public. Most of the public are idiots. A lot of ladies deal with a fair number of douchebags. We've seen clear examples of doucebaggery even just on here. So just because a girl seems to appear unhappy, it could just be because she's having a shitty day because of the people she dealt with just before you, not necessarily because she hates the industry and wants out, or is being forced into it.

I like to think, and I truly believe, most guys on here have some kind of code and conduct themselves like gentlemen. But there's always going to be a percentage of douchebags, can't change that unfortunately.

I might not agree with what a provider does with her money, but I don't think that's really my business. So if a girl is unhappy with her outcome from the industry, then that's on her. If they want Mercedes and Gucci bags it's their life. Some seem to be doing just fine though. I just had a SP who said she invests plenty in the stock market and is saving for a house. She's on her way home to see her family for a while. Hardly the life of a slave in my opinion. She can probably buy 100 Apple shares soon if I keep seeing her. She is there by choice and is free to leave... that's all that matters to me. There's really not much left to interpretation in most cases.

You have an impressive hobbyist resume. One of the most impressive resumes on here at least to me. There's shit you've done that are on my Not Likely to Ever Happen but Wish They Would Bucket List, specifically I'm referring to Far East escapades. Do you think that there are things you ran into overseas that are more likely exploitation? I guess I'm talking about bar girls for example. My understanding was that generally a lot were just like the ladies here, putting food on the table, and if they're smart planning for the future. Some not too though. They might have not made great choices in their past, and that may be the reason why they're in the industry, but again no one is forcing them.

I'd be interested hearing different perspectives if guys feel they ran into that. Personally I have never felt I ran in to any exploitation other than me being the sucker more times than I'd like to admit.

To your point, yes at some time everyone has problems with their job, but sex work falls into a different category for most people. I've found those willing to talk about it rationally are few and far between, and not to be sexist, but in my experience, women especially have a tough time being honest about it. Personally, I don't think paying for sex is by its nature an immoral act, but for a whole host of cultural (religious, historic, economic, etc) reasons, many people disagree. I don't deny some women are exploited in very sad situations, but most women I've talked to about the subject simply refuse to see the difference between a woman being forced into the life for survival (which any decent person would see as a tragedy), and the Gucci-chasing, fast-living females who'd rather suck a cock than punch a clock.

To answer your question about Asia as honestly as I can, I have to say...yes I believe a harsher degree of exploitation is more likely in a place like Thailand or even Brasil. However, even after eight trips to Thailand--and though I am an aficionado of Thai culture--I don't think I could read the situation well enough to say I understood there when a girl is being abused there or not.

To give you an example, on my 2004 trip to Thailand I was traveling with a Canadian girlfriend. We went to the large Banyan Tree grove in Phimai. There, we met two schoolgirls, sitting on a bench in their white blouses and navy skirts, maybe 13 or 14 years old. They started talking to my girlfriend but their english was poor. With my few words of Thai, we managed to communicate. They wanted to know everything about Canada. What's snow like etc. So cute. When we left they walked out with us and the older one asked if we wanted to see where they live. The "house" was like something out of a Tin Tin book, a little hut, perched on stilts over a river, toilet outside etc. We met the mom. She made us food. We sat for an afternoon and talked, saw their vegetable/fruit patch, how they lived with car batteries for electricity, it was really nice experience. They seemed like a happy family. Place was obviously poor, but clean and orderly. When it came time to leave, I told them that I had so much fun and so appreciated seeing their place that they had to accept a little gift, and I gave them 2k baht. It was probably too much (about $60.00 to $80.00 Cdn back then). They were happy with the offering, but what happened next shocked the hell out of me. The mother offered me the girls. She did it smilingly, in Thai so that my girlfriend didn't understand. She nodded to the older girl, who put her hand on my forearm and squeezed it and looked at me. I know some of you guys will joke, but it scared the shit out of me and I got the hell out of there, politely, but fast. We had exchanged email addresses before this happened and the girls wrote to me a couple of times, I never replied. It just goes to show, this world is still a big place and the people in it see their lives differently than you or I might. I wanted to judge a mother that would do that to her kid, but I don't live there; and the memory of those kids, they seemed so normal, happy and well-adjusted. I don't know what to say, but after the scare was over, I felt humbled by my ignorance.

 

[Hoosier]

This was insightful, and well written. I’m not going to rehash what has already been well tabled, but what has not yet been discussed is how the sex trade has served to save relationships otherwise doomed to failure. And by sex trade, I’m referring to those untrafficed business ladies who voluntarily exchange service for a fee. The moralities of the matter are very subjective.

 

[cl794]

This was insightful, and well written. I’m not going to rehash what has already been well tabled, but what has not yet been discussed is how the sex trade has served to save relationships otherwise doomed to failure. And by sex trade, I’m referring to those untrafficed business ladies who voluntarily exchange service for a fee. The moralities of the matter are very subjective.

Just want to point out there's a lot of talk of morality in this thread about the hobby itself, my question is, what about the standard of morality in mainstream/legal relationships?

How moral is it for a spouse to cheat after marriage and children? How common is it, how is it viewed by society.

How moral is it for a spouse to completely deny sex after marriage, but at the same time not even initiate divorce? Essentially saying, you can be celibate or you can "cheat". How common is this, and how is it viewed by society?

There's no point talking about morality / values / "doing the right thing" without also discussing what is happening in society itself. Lol, as if just regular costco going married people are just living completely moral lives.

 

[Blastah]

Before I start, I want to make it clear this isn't a morality piece, nor do I mean to influence anyone else, or to somehow make anyone feel less about themselves. Because that would be hypocritical and that's not me. This is just my recent story, that's all it is. But yes as the title of the post says, I am out, done with visiting massage parlors.

Here is what started it. Late-December I went to a massage place. Don't ask me where or names because that isn't the point, and I won't share. The girl turned out to be a Chinese foreign student at an Ontario college and young, early 20s, and pretty. After the massage, she asked if I wanted sex and I said yes. So she undressed and was standing there naked. And I couldn't do it, she could have been my daughter standing there. Just felt incredibly sorry all of a sudden. So I paid her and we just chatted for a bit and I left. I'm sure she is working still and most probably she's not nearly as bothered about it, as I was.

But since than, I have stopped, I got fed up with myself. Not just what happened with that girl, but also this never ending up and down cycle of having fun for an hour, go home, and than the itch starts again, until the next visit. I'm much more busy with hobbies, started going out Saturday nights, and generally feeling a lot happier. Will I go back ? Like any addiction, it always will linger. But I have not smoked in 25 years so perhaps this isn't so difficult after all.

I'd love to find a legit student tbh

 

[imyourpuppet]

Thankfully I don't have a daughter or I'd likely have the same problem as you. Being almost 50 (look younger) I still love to see the young ladies from time to time but most of the SP's I have seen recently have been 30+.

 

[luvdafurburger]

I just want to ask lucvdafurburger about his statement "as long as I'm not the problem." Can you please explain this.
Thanks.

I meant that I would not feel comfortable if I was contributing to the problem of sex worker exploitation by seeking out the services of victimized ladies and therefore be part of the demand.

If the customer didn't look for sketchy services, it wouldn't be attractive for some people to create a supply. Simple as that. But clearly it is profitable at many levels. Look at the scale of Epstein's assets. Unreal.

If a girl is buying a house with the money she makes by making me happy, and I am the willing sucker contributing to her positive future, then that seems pretty victimless to me. In terms of the age gap the OP refers to, I can see why that would bother some guys, especially if they have daughters, nieces, etc in their lives. I wouldn't want to spend time with a girl that reminded me of my sister. Personally I also prefer ladies over 30+.

In terms of extending the conversation of the OP to morals in relation to home life, I kind of agree it's a cultural thing. There are cultural reasons as Sy Barite said when hobbying would be considered bad and I agree and understand sometimes with those societal norms. But other times there are norms that make no sense, at least to me, and I don't understand and necessarily agree with them, but publicly we are restrained from voicing or exposing our opinion. I don't believe in Disney bullshit or Rom-Com fantasies.

But I sure agree with him I would have been totally creeped out by being offered a 13 year old, and I would never understand the mentality of a parent even considering offering their child into that work. But I can accept some people are pretty fucked up, I just won't ever give them a dime.

We only go around once so "do what makes you happiest but don't hurt anyone" works for me.

 

[pineapplebun]

I meant that I would not feel comfortable if I was contributing to the problem of sex worker exploitation by seeking out the services of victimized ladies and therefore be part of the demand.

If the customer didn't look for sketchy services, it wouldn't be attractive for some people to create a supply. Simple as that. But clearly it is profitable at many levels. Look at the scale of Epstein's assets. Unreal.

If a girl is buying a house with the money she makes by making me happy, and I am the willing sucker contributing to her positive future, then that seems pretty victimless to me. In terms of the age gap the OP refers to, I can see why that would bother some guys, especially if they have daughters, nieces, etc in their lives. I wouldn't want to spend time with a girl that reminded me of my sister. Personally I also prefer ladies over 30+.

In terms of extending the conversation of the OP to morals in relation to home life, I kind of agree it's a cultural thing. There are cultural reasons as Sy Barite said when hobbying would be considered bad and I agree and understand sometimes with those societal norms. But other times there are norms that make no sense, at least to me, and I don't understand and necessarily agree with them, but publicly we are restrained from voicing or exposing our opinion. I don't believe in Disney bullshit or Rom-Com fantasies.

But I sure agree with him I would have been totally creeped out by being offered a 13 year old, and I would never understand the mentality of a parent even considering offering their child into that work. But I can accept some people are pretty fucked up, I just won't ever give them a dime.

We only go around once so "do what makes you happiest but don't hurt anyone" works for me.

In regards to offering their daughter, many years ago I was with a woman who had two kids by the time she was 17. Her husband was in his 30s at the time. And, yes, as per @sy barite ’s story, this was in Thailand. The woman (divorced by the time I met her) was living in abject poverty and being sold to someone more well off was a means to get the entire family a leg up. As it turns out the woman is far smarter than her future husband and he seemed to take exception to that and they parted ways.

So yeah, it’s creepy offering your very very young daughter to be with a much older man, but we don’t have the same pressures that those people living in poverty have.

 

[superdick]

I just hope it was not the same young girl I talked her out of this business about 2 months ago. She's about 5' tall around 95 lbs with glasses on. I told her this business is like a trap, once you got in, very hard to get out cuz money is so easy and won't be able to work regular jobs any more. I told her to think it over seriously before she comes back to work the following Monday. She came over for interview Saturday afternoon, tried out 2 customers and made 350. She sent me a message Sunday night saying she couldn't do this job and quit. I was so happy for her after that. She told me she only wanted to do massage and no happy ending. So I doubt that it was her. She was a 3 rd yr university student .

Post #3757 East Beaver thread.

Been reading and appreciating this thread from the jump..,..until I get to your "two cents"
Been a LOTTA great responses addressing, supporting, or just acknowledging the dilemma faced by the original poster........

Your response ....

Kinda REEKS with an unhealthy dose self serving and aggrandizing BS...,.,....it's almost like you want to prove how wonderful a human being you are.
Quite a contrast to your REP whether deserved or not.

Nothing personal (in some ways you are a legend on this board...some would argue in your own mind)......I can understand why you rub so many people the wrong way.

On a FREUDIAN NOTE...............
OUR ID "is the part of personality made of unconscious energy that focuses on fulfilling urges and desires" ie sexual
OUR EGO is the biggest factor contributing to our accepted VICES of "fulfilling our basic urges and desire. IMHP
Our original poster is having conflicts with his "SUPEREGO". Which we all do at some point in this hobby/habit/vice

 

[Tissue]

Before I start, I want to make it clear this isn't a morality piece, nor do I mean to influence anyone else, or to somehow make anyone feel less about themselves. Because that would be hypocritical and that's not me. This is just my recent story, that's all it is. But yes as the title of the post says, I am out, done with visiting massage parlors.

Here is what started it. Late-December I went to a massage place. Don't ask me where or names because that isn't the point, and I won't share. The girl turned out to be a Chinese foreign student at an Ontario college and young, early 20s, and pretty. After the massage, she asked if I wanted sex and I said yes. So she undressed and was standing there naked. And I couldn't do it, she could have been my daughter standing there. Just felt incredibly sorry all of a sudden. So I paid her and we just chatted for a bit and I left. I'm sure she is working still and most probably she's not nearly as bothered about it, as I was.

But since than, I have stopped, I got fed up with myself. Not just what happened with that girl, but also this never ending up and down cycle of having fun for an hour, go home, and than the itch starts again, until the next visit. I'm much more busy with hobbies, started going out Saturday nights, and generally feeling a lot happier. Will I go back ? Like any addiction, it always will linger. But I have not smoked in 25 years so perhaps this isn't so difficult after all.

Sounds like you're gonna be back in about a month

 

[AverageJoe2022]

Sounds like you're gonna be back in about a month

It’s all about dopamine regulation. As long as he keeps himself busy and interested in other hobbies, he won’t relapse.

 

[AverageJoe2022]

So yeah, it’s creepy offering your very very young daughter to be with a much older man, but we don’t have the same pressures that those people living in poverty have.

It actually happens in Cuba a lot. Some older men from Canada go on vacation and spend their time with a much younger mistress and pay their bills. You can see it even while you’re at a resort there. Sex tourism is an actual thing.

 

[luvdafurburger]

Your response ....

Kinda REEKS with an unhealthy dose self serving and aggrandizing BS...,.,....it's almost like you want to prove how wonderful a human being you are.
Quite a contrast to your REP whether deserved or not.

You are correct. Nothing Krayjee does or says isn't primarily self serving. 95% is fabricated too.

He projects a nice guy persona to cover the smelly stench of his actions and true character.

 

[kittyhound69]

lol. Boeing 707 is out and I’m trying to find this young student is working. I’m willing to help with her tuition no problem here. So pm me her name and location haha

 

[tiktikboom]

lol. Boeing 707 is out and I’m trying to find this young student is working. I’m willing to help with her tuition no problem here. So pm me her name and location haha

If you find out let me know